General Peter Pace recently said what many of us believe is obvious—that homosexuality is immoral. It’s obvious to me that he never plans on running for office, because the PC way is to tippytoe around the subject, by pretending not to believe what we believe and certainly NEVER saying it, at least not publicly. Here’s what CBS and the AP reported on the Chief of Staff’s comments concerning homosexual’s in the military.
(CBS/AP) The Pentagon's top general expressed regret Tuesday that he called homosexuality immoral, a remark that drew a harsh condemnation from members of Congress and gay advocacy groups.
There are things people do that are not against the law that many of us consider immoral. For many of us homosexuality is one of those things. Adultery is another one. In some societies those acts are indeed against the law and they still are according to the laws of the United States Military as codified in the Uniform Military Code of Justice.
In a newspaper interview Monday, Marine Gen. Peter Pace, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, likened homosexual acts to adultery and said the military should not condone it by allowing gays to serve openly in the armed forces.
The general is exactly right and has nothing to apologize for. Overt displays of homosexuality, and of heterosexuality for that matter, contravene good order and discipline required in the military. The general’s point is that we live under strictures in the armed forces that civilians don’t have to. The “don’t ask don’t tell” policy is exactly right and is a semi-perfect compromise for the current cultural reality we exist in—that reality being that most of us still consider homosexual behavior wrong.
A good number of us, General Pace included, consider homosexuality against their moral code while others think it perfectly acceptable. A concession was reached back at the beginning of
When we join the military we are quickly apprised of the rules of conduct. They are definitely not the same rules that apply to civilians. Sorry, but that’s how it is. There are many good reasons for it and people should not sign up to begin with if they don’t believe they can comply.
Besides “hiding” homosexuality, there are many other strictures military folks must follow that civilians don’t have to worry about. For instance, civilians, even the Commander in Chief it seems, are allowed to be adulterers. The same sin committed by service personnel results in prosecution and ejection from the military.
When we serve, even our freedom of speech is curtailed. We are not allowed to appear in uniform at political functions or to make political speeches or declarations. Along these same lines there is a prohibition against speaking certain words or phrases such as racial epithets or any kind of so-called hate speech.
Service people are not allowed to join militias, gangs, or any organization or institution deemed to be counter to the interests of the
American troops are not allowed to have facial or body piercings now. Certain hairstyles for both females and males are prohibited, as are tattoos on exposed areas of the body.
As a serviceman or woman, try quitting and going home before your enlistment is up and see what happens. A civilian—even a cop can quit right in the middle of a shootout or a fireman during a four-alarm-fire and all that happens is they are out of a job. If a soldier “quits” in the middle of a firefight (running before the enemy) or refuses a task during battle, it can literally mean being executed by firing squad.
In a statement Tuesday, he said he should have focused more in the interview on the Defense Department policy about gays — and "less on my personal moral views."
Well, its too late now, the “cat’s out of the bag.” The general believes that homosexuality is unethical! Come on! Is anyone really surprised? As far as I know, believing that and expressing it is NOT against the Uniformed Code of Military Justice, so I don’t believe he’s going to be prosecuted or asked to resign, especially by this president, nor to apologize for SAYING exactly what he believes. But oh my God, from the expressions of outrage (read below) from the liberal community you’d think the good general was a Nazi. (Of course, that’s EXACTLY what they DO believe).
"It's bad enough that he thinks that. It's even worse that he would be foolish enough to say that publicly," Arlene Isaacsen of the Massachusetts GAy & Lesbian Political Caucus told CBS Radio station WBZ-AM. "It is crass prejudice, crass bigotry and brazen ignorance, and it's disgraceful to think that someone in his position would think in these terms."
Ms Isaacsen, most of us think EXACTLY in those terms. Homosexuality is against many of our religious and personal codes. When men and women perform felatio on each other, or anal sex, or whatever they do, to us it’s wrong. To us, it’s just as wrong as pedophilia, or sex with animals, or incest, and all the other skewed ways that people have found to release themselves sexually. General Pace’s religion tells him so and so do all Semitic religions. I find his honesty refreshing.
This Isaacsen person is upset to be reminded by the general that most of us out here still think in terms of morality instead of relativism. The object of folks like her is to get lots of people together of the same ilk, all of whom want to believe that what they are doing is okay, and thus reassure each other that what they do is just fine. Whether pedophilia or incest, those who practice those things continue to proclaim that it’s perfectly “natural” and say it’s the rest of us who are evil and prejudiced.
The sickening thing is that their plan is working. Within a generation or two I foresee all kinds of other deviancies becoming socially acceptable. Homosexuals found that by continuing to “hit us in the face” with their deviancy, eventually “we” started to accept and tolerate.
"General Pace's comments are outrageous, insensitive and disrespectful to the 65,000 lesbian and gay troops now serving in our armed forces," the advocacy group Servicemembers Legal Defense Network said in a statement on its Web site.
The group, which has represented some of the thousands dismissed from the military for their sexual orientation, demanded an apology.
If the general ever apologizes for stating that his personal beliefs are that homosexuality is immoral then I will be very disappointed. If he believes its wrong why should he say otherwise? We believe what we believe every bit as much as you believe whatever it is you believe. People like me tolerate it, but we don’t accept it as “natural” or decent.
"He's saying you can still serve and die for your country, but don't tell if you're gay, because then you're dishonorable; you're immoral," Fricke said.
Ahhh! Very good. Fricke gets it!
Pace did not offer an apology, something that had been demanded by gay rights groups.
I suggest they hold their collective breath until they get one—an apology from the general that is. Until these people convince the rest of us—people like Pete Pace and me—that “what they do” is okay then the policy on homosexuals in the service will remain as it is. Most Americans these days will never serve in the armed forces and so will never understand that to serve means sacrificing individual rights. In effect, even your very life no longer belongs to you. If the mission requires one to give up ones life then so be it. You actually say those words when you sign up. Being asked to agree to “don’t ask don’t tell” is one of the least of those sacrificed rights.
General Pace is an intolerant, narrow minded bigot. Who the hell put him in charge of moral reasoning? If our leaders celebrated diversity, or at the very least understood it, perhaps the situation in Iraq would be better. Pace is awful. I don't think he should apologize but I do think he should be fired. This is not someone who we should want others to associate our country with.
He's no more narrow minded than any other Christian who believes that homosexual acts are immoral. His job isn't to "celebrate diversity," his job is to ensure the US armed forces are ready to defend your right to be "diverse." Part of that preparation is instilling order and discipline. Adultery, homosexuality, drug use, incest, drunkenness, etc. all can impede readiness.
"This is not someone who we should want others to associate our country with."
On the contrary, this is EXACTLY who we want our countries enemies to associate our country with. Additionally, I really don't think the Islamofascists have a plan for peace based on the US military policy regarding homosexual activity in the military.
Take a look at how diversity is celebrated by the groups at war with us. General Pace may think homosexuality is immoral, but he doesn't think homosexuals should be executed. Our enemies do. General Pace has made a career decision to sacrifice his life if need be to protect the diversity we all enjoy. If that sounds jingoistic, sorry. I'd say General Pace has a very clear undestanding of diversity, and the way he celebrates it helps provide a safe environment for all the gentle, diverse souls of our nation.
But your whole premise is a fallacy. I don't think that homosexuality (which you hatefully and insanely lump in with drug use and incest)necessarily impedes readiness. And to the extent that it may have a deleterious effect on troop readiness or moral or whatever, is that the fault or problem of the person who is gay? Or of the person(s) who are unable to accept the person who is gay? That would be like blaming a kid who gets picked on by bullies for not fitting in, as if it was the kids fault for making the bully have to treat him that way.
Given his comments, I have a hard time with the idea that General Pace understands the 1st thing about diversity. Sounds like his parents and religion told him to believe something and he conformed. I wonder how much meaningful contact he has had with gay people - not much would be my guess. I just think it's sad. Such a primitive way of thinking.
["Homosexuality is against many of our religious and personal codes. When men and women perform felatio on each other, or anal sex, or whatever they do, to us it’s wrong. To us, it’s just as wrong as pedophilia, or sex with animals, or incest, and all the other skewed ways that people have found to release themselves sexually."]
Such a simple, polarized view of the world. How hateful. How terrible.
Anonymous, did your parents name you that, or is that just your way of telling your parents you won't conform? This is a friendly blog. Nobody attacks anybody here, everybody is safe to express their opinion without fear of reprisal. Phil is my brother and I can tell you that we are both pretty non-violent, live and let live kind of people. So use a name next time. It's okay.
Also, be careful of falling into hypocrisy yourself. Let's see, in the last 3 posts you have called me, my brother, and/or Gen. Pace these things:
Primitive (reminds me of the Geico commercial, lol)
Those are your words. Pretty harsh things to say about someone simply because they don't agree with your point of view.
And you are missing the point to boot. Nobody is saying that you can't be in the military if you are gay. You just can't talk about it. Big difference.
I just really feel it is you guys that are missing the point. "Nobody is saying that you can't be in the military if you are gay. You just can't talk about it." - if a person is gay than that is a big part of WHO they are, and to have a rule that says you cannot talk about WHO you are because some people might find that icky is hateful, insane, sad, primitive, simple minded and terrible. Thats my feeling about it. I can appreciate your points about keeping it friendly and I apologize for the harsh tone. for me, the issue isn't about different opinions, I see it as being about discrimination. To me, not being able to get married or be openly gay in the military is basically the same thing as you can't vote because you're black, or a woman etc.
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